| Official Luthiers Forum! http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/ |
|
| cnc tiling a fretboard http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10106&t=56891 |
Page 1 of 1 |
| Author: | banjopicks [ Tue Nov 19, 2024 10:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | cnc tiling a fretboard |
I'm looking at purchasing a Genmitsu 4030 with NEMA 23 steppers. I will eventually purchase the 6060 extension but in the mean time, is tiling a fretboard practical? I want to cut fret slots, taper and radius. Is this asking too much? |
|
| Author: | Jim Watts [ Tue Nov 19, 2024 2:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: cnc tiling a fretboard |
I don’t know much about that particular machine but if it’s accurate and you’re cleaver with indexing holes between the spoilboard and fingerboard you should be able to get it located in the right spot when you move it. Hope I understood your question. |
|
| Author: | banjopicks [ Tue Nov 19, 2024 2:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: cnc tiling a fretboard |
Jim Watts wrote: I don’t know much about that particular machine but if it’s accurate and you’re cleaver with indexing holes between the spoilboard and fingerboard you should be able to get it located in the right spot when you move it. Hope I understood your question. Any cleaver tips for doing it? |
|
| Author: | Durero [ Tue Nov 19, 2024 5:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: cnc tiling a fretboard |
Personally I find that there are more than enough challenges with the CAD, CAM, CNC process without creating more by using a machine that does not have enough cutting area for the piece you want to cut. Every time you move a workpiece positioning error is added to the cut. I'm sure there are many clever and patient builders who could handle the situation you're describing with tolerances and results that they are happy with. For me, the accuracy of the fret slots are the highest priority cuts in the entire build process, and literally the reason I use CNC. I'm prioritizing multi-scale designs so that compounds the issue so take that into account when considering my opinion. So yeah for me I would not consider starting without the extension you mentioned which would give you the required travel. My 2cents. Leo |
|
| Author: | Jim Watts [ Tue Nov 19, 2024 6:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: cnc tiling a fretboard |
Here's a thought to chew on. Use two desperate programs, one for the first set of frets and one for the second set. Use 2 locating pins in you spoilboard (work board) say 8 inches apart. Place 3 locating hole on the underside of the fingerboard, exactly 8 inches a part to match the spoilboard. Place the fingerboard on the spoilboard pins using the first two hole locations, we'll call those holes 1 & 2. The first pin in the spoilboard is your set point (X0,Y0) for both programs. Run the first program and cut the first group of frets , say 1-12 or so. Shift the finger down so the pins are now setting in holes 2 & 3. Run the second program to finish the fret slots. When creating your first program use the first hole as your coordinate system. When creating the second program use the second hole for your coordinate system. When you shift the fingerboard, hole 2 is now lined up as your coordinate system. It might be hard for that machine to place the holes accurately enough. As I said, I don't know much about that machine. |
|
| Author: | rlrhett [ Wed Nov 20, 2024 5:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: cnc tiling a fretboard |
I have to second that CNC is hard. Holding down the material, finding the proper bit, proper feeds and speed, proper order of operations, repeatedly and accurately zeroing the tip of the bit, etc. You really want to add trying to seamlessly join two half fingerboards in one? Those Genmitsu CNC’s lack rigidity (unless there is a new one with linear rails and ball screws). They will work in a pinch, but you will be fighting frustrations the whole time. “Extending” a light duty machine is only inviting more problems. I would suggest you buy a small machine to do inlays at the 12th fret, mill bridges, cut sound holes, etc. To me, they are a lot of money for limited utility, but at least you can get a taste of what using a CNC is really like. When you are ready for a machine that will carve necks, make body molds and jigs, cut whole fingerboards, mill solid body guitars, and even do some light aluminum milling you can buy something in the 1M2 size range with linear rails and ball screws. Those half meter square, v-roller, belt driven mid size table top machines with little DC motor spindles are neither one thing nor the other and near useless as a tool in a luthier’s shop. Just my .02. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
|
| Author: | banjopicks [ Wed Nov 20, 2024 6:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: cnc tiling a fretboard |
I found a 6060 in my price range. It is belt driven though. I know its not the most accurate but the size is perfect for guitars. Its only $699. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D89WMC1Z?re ... wisterOG=1 Sent from my SM-A546V using Tapatalk |
|
| Author: | banjopicks [ Wed Nov 20, 2024 10:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: cnc tiling a fretboard |
banjopicks wrote: I found a 6060 in my price range. It is belt driven though. I know its not the most accurate but the size is perfect for guitars. Its only $699. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0D89WMC1Z?re ... wisterOG=1 Sent from my SM-A546V using Tapatalk At the very least, I can make full size templates on this along with bridges rosettes and inlays and overlays. Seems useful to me if I can do this accurately. Cutting frets will be a good experiment. I will experiment with carving necks after learning the machine. I would remove most of the stock by hand. If I get all the other stuff to come out to my satisfaction, I'll be happy. |
|
| Author: | banjopicks [ Thu Nov 21, 2024 9:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: cnc tiling a fretboard |
I'm now looking at financing a portion of a better machine. This is large enough to do guitar parts on. What do you think? https://www.amazon.com/Genmitsu-Machine-PROVerXL-Acrylic-Carving/dp/B0B49SQY4Z/ref=sr_1_10?crid=YDFORJNQZYPL&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.aMbikaQtdabUjFk7BbFZq_d5NwFzCBb2h4bnlYzqvjqhYgU_0mll--h7j-MtsWVBIr5qR57zIdalsAYv5Gtipt-kW0TR_-Y_x4OrJ1N1Mh11dPL-ItI-oOaDQmtw7X2yUwYOGzRGuzVQfoN95_P3WUCdf0HLR_xjGj0hxkI5Nq-sYzecRC2niVd671Uhq0tl38sAZAh5PAeWA6zTWNF5SUZsFWW2Ha7AwHyYf5SIdHievltZrJ4ZwK9pnb8MzIcXDtJVohcsSXj8idX0mKSIzwA56JyuiwOMdFGxwOUBNyo.vHq0YK-_VaCEVmis4vVnLfIoGKyCDDlB37caRG2PH1A&dib_tag=se&keywords=cnc+milling+machine&qid=1732199003&sprefix=cnc%2Caps%2C144&sr=8-10 Attachment: CNC.png
|
|
| Author: | banjopicks [ Thu Nov 21, 2024 9:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: cnc tiling a fretboard |
Do any of you use Fusion 360, if so do you have any guitar files you could share? |
|
| Author: | doncaparker [ Thu Nov 21, 2024 3:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: cnc tiling a fretboard |
Hutch-- Can I recommend a bit of a left turn? Consider buying a used CNC router on facebook marketplace. There is always somebody selling an entry level or slightly higher level CNC machine for a deep discount. Then you can tinker and experiment with that machine, get your sea legs in the CNC world, and later on trade up to something more substantial that better meets your needs. |
|
| Author: | Durero [ Thu Nov 21, 2024 3:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: cnc tiling a fretboard |
Another approach to consider: try progressing through the drawing (CAD) and tool-path processing (CAM) process with a fretboard first and then try cutting it at a maker-space or CNC-router shop before buying your own machine. I've seen people buy their machine first, then endure the frustration of watching it collect dust as they climb the steep learning curves for the software steps required before you can cut anything. It's well worth the cost of using someone else's machine first and the experience gained has immeasurable value for guiding your later CNC purchase decisions. |
|
| Author: | banjopicks [ Thu Nov 21, 2024 5:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: cnc tiling a fretboard |
I've already completed some gcode for things in 3 different apps, freecad, sketchup and fusion. I just need to get up to speed on fusion and have a machine to work with to learn on. The one I've chosen seems to get great reviews and it's large enough for my hobby guitar work and has no belts. I want buy once and if i find out it's not capable for neck carving, ill continue carving by hand, no big deal. Sent from my SM-A546V using Tapatalk |
|
| Author: | doncaparker [ Thu Nov 21, 2024 6:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: cnc tiling a fretboard |
The one you have picked out might be useful on bridges, fretboards, and inlays. Or, it might not be powerful or accurate enough for those things. Regarding neck carving, I just don't see how it will handle that. If you want to buy once, my personal view is that you are picking too low of a spot on the price/performance spectrum, and this will wind up not being your only CNC purchase, despite your current intent. Sorry to be the Debbie Downer, but I wouldn't want to cheerlead you into a disappointing choice. |
|
| Author: | Skarsaune [ Fri Nov 22, 2024 9:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: cnc tiling a fretboard |
Pretty much what Don and others are saying. Neck carving takes more Z axis travel and reach than a lot of smaller cnc's will do. I've used mine to rough in a neck, but when it gets to the heel, I run out of travel. I've got a 12" x 24" NextWave and it is great for fret boards, inlays and other moderately sized work. I have used it to cut a Tele-style body, using a tiling fixture with indexing pins like someone described above. Each time you re-chuck a part, you're introducing variability. This takes you away from one of the big reasons for the cnc - the accuracy. I would not cut a fretboard using a tiling fixture. Perhaps look for a machine that's higher on the price/performance spectrum, but used. There can be deals out there where folks bought a machine, thinking it would do everything for them, and gave up on it without making much sawdust. On learning CAD/CAM/CNC - it's what I've done my entire working career, so it wasn't a big step for me. There are lots of resources out there for learning. Any of the software options out there will do the work, pick a common one and get to it. I use VCarve as it was supplied with the machine I bought. It comes from an art/signmaking background, so it's a little different than the industrial tools I'm used to at my job (CATIA, MasterCAM, etc) but it's functional for what i need. |
|
| Author: | rlrhett [ Fri Nov 22, 2024 9:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: cnc tiling a fretboard |
banjopicks wrote: I'm now looking at financing a portion of a better machine. This is large enough to do guitar parts on. What do you think? https://www.amazon.com/Genmitsu-Machine-PROVerXL-Acrylic-Carving/dp/B0B49SQY4Z/ref=sr_1_10?crid=YDFORJNQZYPL&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.aMbikaQtdabUjFk7BbFZq_d5NwFzCBb2h4bnlYzqvjqhYgU_0mll--h7j-MtsWVBIr5qR57zIdalsAYv5Gtipt-kW0TR_-Y_x4OrJ1N1Mh11dPL-ItI-oOaDQmtw7X2yUwYOGzRGuzVQfoN95_P3WUCdf0HLR_xjGj0hxkI5Nq-sYzecRC2niVd671Uhq0tl38sAZAh5PAeWA6zTWNF5SUZsFWW2Ha7AwHyYf5SIdHievltZrJ4ZwK9pnb8MzIcXDtJVohcsSXj8idX0mKSIzwA56JyuiwOMdFGxwOUBNyo.vHq0YK-_VaCEVmis4vVnLfIoGKyCDDlB37caRG2PH1A&dib_tag=se&keywords=cnc+milling+machine&qid=1732199003&sprefix=cnc%2Caps%2C144&sr=8-10 Attachment: CNC.png This seems to ride on 15mm rails. That’s a major step up. You would want to buy it with the cheapest spindle because you will want to swap it for a 1.2kw or 2.2kw VFD spindle. Laminate trimmers can be powerful, but you can’t control the RPM without losing much of that power. Otherwise the specs aren’t too bad. 60 x 40 is just a hair small. I’ve had several small machines over the years, and I found 24x18x4” cut volume to be just enough for lutherie. Z travel is a thorny issue. Trying to do an acoustic heel takes a commercial sized machine. I don’t think there is a bench top one that has the clearance, z travel, and rigidity for a 6” bit. I have seen people on YouTube do the heel separately and have the machine cave an index pin to mate them together, or you just do that by hand. Most things are going to be done in material of an inch or less. It’s good to have more travel for jigs, or to hold things at an angle (like a headstock), but chasing that last 1% just skyrockets the cost. Buying used is not a bad idea. CNC is not push a button and done tool. That is why there are so many used ones. But it can be an incredible tool once you master it. Good luck with your search! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
|
| Author: | banjopicks [ Fri Nov 22, 2024 10:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: cnc tiling a fretboard |
I would love to buy a used industrial cnc but so far, i haven't seen anything for $1500 which is my limit. I've thought about making the heel seperate and I was happy to see you mention it as a viable technique. Sent from my SM-A546V using Tapatalk |
|
| Author: | banjopicks [ Sat Nov 23, 2024 5:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: cnc tiling a fretboard |
Can you tell what are the most useful bits for guitar work. I see these variety packs for $27. I don't have high confidence in those. Sent from my SM-A546V using Tapatalk |
|
| Author: | rlrhett [ Sat Nov 23, 2024 7:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: cnc tiling a fretboard |
I wouldn’t get a pack. Good bits aren’t that expensive. A 1/4” compression bit for working sheet goods, a 1/4” down cut, a 1/2” ball nose for curved surfaces, 1/8” for smaller things, and some teeny .20 bits for your fret slots, and you should have plenty to learn on. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
|
| Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|